Poet x Poets

A pro skater from Brooklyn is rumored to have said that the only good thing about Long Island is that it's attached to Brooklyn. What this curmudgeon didn't mention is that the island also connects with Queens (so we LI'ers have that going for us, too, which is nice). In celebration of this connection, Wriders brings you Poet for Poets: a collaboration with legendary Queens writer, Poet CWK, and everyone's favorite skater's favorite skater, Long Island's Gino Iannucci (Poets).

When did you start skating?

Gino: The first thing that comes to mind is a young girl in my grade school that used to skateboard to school. This was probably around 1986. That's the first time I saw a legit skateboard. I was used to the Toys R' Us plastic boards, and she was riding a Town & Country wooden skateboard. I remember being intrigued.

When did you start writing?

Poet: Grade school, around '84 or '85, I was in class with a girl who wrote Boney D. I was intrigued. She knew a lot of people from the neighborhood, and that's how it all started. 

 

Available at Poets Brand

 

Where did Poets come from?

Gino: Poets Corner is a neighborhood in Westbury, Long Island, where I grew up. So I named the brand after the neighborhood.

Where did Poet come from?

Poet: There was a Poet from my neighborhood who stopped writing years earlier, so I went with the name.

Available at Poets Brand

In skating, filming at skateparks is frowned upon; in writing, painting legal walls is frowned upon. What are your thoughts on these "rules"?

Gino: I've filmed at skateparks as I've gotten older, and I think that's because I've gotten less and less interested in being in the streets. And less and less capable of the physical demand of skating through the streets from spot to spot. So parks became easier. If I was younger, I probably would have frowned upon park footage. I don't necessarily enjoy watching footage at parks as much as street footage, of course. So I don't frown upon it, that much, because I do it, but probably back in the day I would have.

Poet: Legal walls is street art. I have done them, and I will still do them. But not on a regular basis. Graffiti is illegal, and that's how it was and how it will always be.

Back in the day, skating and graffiti weren't as accepted by the mainstream as they are now. How do you think this warm welcome from the masses has affected the cultures?

Gino: Acceptance always seems to make things watered down and cheesy. That's my generation's way/my 50-year-old self's way of looking at it. To put it simply, there are pluses and minuses.

Poet: It's a 50/50 split. You have your pros, and you definitely have your cons. The cons are that they take something that was created by children and exploit it for their own needs while making millions of dollars with something that was created by kids; something that's frowned upon and they tell you that you can't do, you shouldn't do, yet corporate America has basically hijacked it. There are a few people that are getting paid off of it, yes, a few. Few and far between. There are countless others that ain't getting shit. And they're using their graphics and styles in commercials and clothing brands, so basically corporate America is robbing the poor. 

 

Last question goes to Poet: will you hit my book?

Poet: Yes. 

 

 

 

Renos HTK

Renos is the second West Coast skater/writer to be interviewed here. He's also the second subject to be connected with us by Rebel (thanks, Tommy). We spoke about his connections to/early inspirations from NYC, how he got his big pop, what skate companies he's done graphics for, and much more.

 

What did you get into first, skateboarding or graffiti? 

I started skating first as a youngster, riding a plastic board at age five and riding outside of the house. Initially it was just another toy in the garage, but by age 10 I got a real setup and was hyped. It was a Sims New Wave with Indys and Alva Rock wheels. That was the start of the addiction. 

I really started to get interested in writing around age seven or so. Just being intrigued by writing on anything around the neighborhood, all by kids writing all the AC/DC and Led Zep stoner graff, and gangster writing, and eventually breakdancing nicknames. Being as my dad was from Queens, I was also always intrigued by anything having to do with New York. I do recall riding from the La Guardia Airport and seeing graff along the freeway and thinking this is too cool. During that trip I absorbed all of the neighborhood graff, and was determined to learn,and wanted to know more about it. I was fascinated and I think it altered my brain chemistry and set me on the path. This was around 1980 or so. I remember riding the 7 line and staring out the window and watching the graff roll by. Those moments implanted the virus.

 

Renos, grabbing Indy in '89.

Who were you psyched on in your early days of skating? 

Initially I would see skating in the early surfing magazines - mainly just ads for the plastic boards and always thought the dudes in the pics looked real cool, carving all styled out. I had a step brother who surfed and skated and I would scour his mags. He rode a Big Red back then. He stopped skating when he bailed skitching and road rashed half of his shoulder off. He was an early influence. He was the cool older bro! Once I got a bit older and learned more about the scene I got into whoever was in Thrasher. I remember the first time I was taken to a vert ramp - it was a long skate from the skateshop and a local older kid let me tag along. We wound up at some random house and in the backyard and there is this huge vert ramp. Jeff Hedges was there; he was ripping and my mind was blown. He was the first in-person vert skater I had ever seen. Years later, I got to skate street with him. That was rad. I was too young and unskilled to skate vert and we were just into bombing big hills and just kind of cruising around the block. When we learned ollie to axel stalls, that changed the game for us neighborhood kids. Then the jump ramp era kicked in, and ramp to wall rides; we now had a type of skating we could better relate to.

 

Renos gets blunted in '88.

 We had a local skate shop, Go Skate, and they had a big crew of local rippers: Chad, Jay, Mike Alcantar, Scott Oster, Eric Ryder, Fletcher Hill, Craig Barnett. They were the older dudes who ripped and we all looked up to. Then later some other folks inspired me to try and skate better and faster: Kenny Fauty, Carl Fleck, Zoomer, David Smyrak, Kjhel Ossness, Toby Wolf, Pat Walsh, Kevin Price, Gabe Mckillop, Brian Carlsen the ollie master, Brian Backus RIP, Tom Cleary, Metal Man Ed, Tim Diet, Johnny Reverse RIP. When street skating started to get coverage it was Natas and Gonz and Tommy G. - they were mind melters.

 

Early '90s.

 

Who were you psyched on in your early days of graffiti?

Style Wars help set it off for us. We were already into graff and breaking, but once we got to watch that film over and over, that became our mentorship program. And my racked Subway Art book was my tracing guide. We also had a local scene with folks like: OZ, Quickdraw, 2fast, Rock198, Sway from Boston rolled by, OOZE, and all of the early SF writers: Dug, Deen, Bisaro, Dream RIP, Spie, UB40, Saint /Noid, J love A, RWD, LAZ, ARM crew, ROT, Smokey25th, and SO MANY MORE. Mainly I just tried to bite anything in Style Wars and Subway Art and from the up older dudes in SF and Oakland.

 

 

How did you get your tag? 

I’ve had a ton over the years. Started early as Mad, then Mace, then Merc 1, Cosmic Kid was my breaking name. I went on a heavy tour as Merc and ran into some legal issues which should have made me retire!  I chilled for a bit, then eased back into it with a new name to throw them off the trail. I took the first letter of my gov't name, added a “oner” which was in fashion at the time for “Soner”. Thinking I was clever and to try and camouflage it even more I reversed that.

 

 

What does HTK stand for?

Hill Top Kids is the original meaning, since the original members are all from a certain neighborhood. 

What would you say are the differences between California graff verses NYC graff? 

I think we just tried to do our own version of what we initially saw happening in New York. Some of it worked and some of it just got lost in translation. Everywhere had regional styles back then, before there was easy access to the game. Each local scene produced their own fonts and styles that evolved locally and organically. I think the differences were far more pronounced than they are today, which is good and bad. The learning curve is way shorter which may also help style evolve in a rapid rate which is interesting to watch. The good part of NY is that your work seems to last longer than out here in Cali.

 

When the West is in the house: Renos up in Brooklyn

You have some serious pop! Big ollies! Is that something you had to work on, or did it come naturally? 

One of the first things everyone used to ask was “How high can you ollie?” That was the "are you cool or a poseur" test. So I always wanted to make sure I could pass. We skated with this cat Brian Carlsen and he was the king of pop. He was ollieing tennis court nets on Roskopp face decks. He ripped!!! Jump ramp king, too. He could ollie up the stage at EMB first try... and this was in '86 or so. That was the skating I liked to do and it just felt rad to be able to pop around. The ollie was the staple back then and I just kept at it. And to this day I am content to just roll around and ollie. Sometimes I forget to flip my board or do anything else.

 

Renos ollieing high in 1997.

 

Have you done any graphics for skate brands? 

Luckily yes!! I was lucky enough to design a few decks for a brand called Co-Op. It was a small brand, and pretty short lived. We did a video too. I did four deck graphics and some ad lettering etc. I used a NY subway template drawing and did a “conspiracy” piece on it. It was a great experience. I was lucky enough to do an OJ Wheel graphic, and an Independent trucks  t-shirt. Also a few graphics for some skateshops: Bills Wheels, Long Beach Skate, Terrace skateshop and Slappys!! 

 

 

 

What is it about these two subcultures (skating and graffiti) that they attract a lot of the same people?

I think back in the day we were all wild childs. Latch key kids, feral creatures who were all looking for something. Skating was easy access, didn’t require parental involvement, and a rebellious activity that offered a ton of freedom. Just grab your setup and barge out into the world and wander looking for adventure. It often attracted some of the more fringe, outcast types who banded together like a pack of wolves. Similar to many of those who gravitated to graff. It offers adventure, little $ investment, a secret world with its own hierarchies, rules, politics, and chaos!! And for me, both were on the streets and I always enjoyed wandering. 

 

 

In skating it's not cool to film at skateparks. In graffiti it's not cool to paint legal walls. So are legal walls the graff equivalent of skatepark footage and vice versa? What are your thoughts on these two "rules"?  

I’ve always liked to break rules. Sure when you’re a youngster coming up you should be out in the wild getting up, catching wreck, skating street spots and painting street spots! That is where the real action lays and the test of your level in the game. Once you get a bit older and the risk vs. reward stakes change, just do your thing and fuck any rules. Be stoked to still be painting or skating wherever and whenever you can. Real life kicks in quickly and the return on investment changes. Do your thing and enjoy it. Be appreciative that these insane skateparks exist and that you can afford to buy the paint to doodle your name. 

 

 

Any skaters or companies you're psyched on right now?

Yes! I am psyched to see skating progress so quickly and looking forward to the future! It is dope to see Tony Hawk Playstation skating be real life!!!  Stoked on: Independent Trucks, Bronson Bearings, Mob Grip, OJ Wheels Double Durometers and Santa Cruz VX decks.

 

What writers are you seeing up that you like?

I like it all. Hyped on the toys in my neighborhood - there is a new wave of vandals en route. Stoked to see it. I like seeing the folks who are working on their tags and out there getting up!

 

Any shout outs? 

KTB, MD. HTK crew. Rebel SC. Thanks to you for reaching out and asking these questions! And to anyone who took the time to read my rant, thanks. Stay Up.

Joust GSA NSA GND

A few weeks ago, I met up Keon to give him some decks for a project we're working on. While we were chatting, his old friend Joust's name came up. Next thing I knew, Keon had Joust on speaker phone and he was introducing us. Joust and I exchanged numbers, I sent him some questions, and the following interview unfolded. 

How did you first get into skating and graffiti?

My first memory of seeing skateboards was walking with my family after a dinner in Chinatown... 2 black kids came thundering down the sidewalk, one in a crouch holding a broomstick out at arms length. My first skateboard was a fiberglass Hobie with a waffle texture on top and clay wheels with loose ball bearings bought from the Rockaway Beach Surf Shop. I skated for a while on my own. I would practice riding down the hill of my grandfather's driveway, taking the turn onto the sidewalk and just going up and down my block. 

Joust and his brother at Paved Wave skatepark in Oakhurst, N.J.

The first graffiti I noticed were the tags around Newkirk Plaza, a couple of blocks from my house. I began to try to do a name I came up with on all my notebooks, but never actually on a public wall. This early skateboarding and graffiti writing was done on my own. They were just a tiny part of my kid life, while I was going to school, playing sports, being a cub scout, dreaming about girls, listening to the radio, having 45 rpm records by the Beach Boys and The Isley Brothers, watching the Brady Bunch and the Partridge Family on T.V., riding bikes, throwing tops and yoyos, flipping baseball cards and having little electric race cars. 

Joust tag in the background.

How did you get your tag?

The name Joust was given to me by a guy who wrote Pawn 1, who also went to Murrow H.S. He really never got up, but he had written with Shadow & Deal early in their careers. His style was incredible. Not only did he give me the name, but he would draft amazing styles to spark my imagination. I didn't even know what the word meant till I looked it up. He was also a skateboarder and was there for the first time skating the big bowl. Which was a monumental day, though I got a serious ear infection from cutting through the swampy stagnant slime in the deeper end. He rode an aluminum KONA board. Thinking of him reminds me of something else we used to do called a "catamaran." Two guys would each sit on their own board facing each other with their feet on the other guys' board and your hands on the other guys' shoulders. There was a steep hill entering some kind of parking area at Brooklyn College, which is where we used to do this. It almost always ended in a wipeout, and that Kona board with its metal edges was deadly. There were so many good times. 

JD throw (aka Joust)

When I went to high school is when they (skating and graffiti) started to play a bigger part in my life. First writing went to the next level. I was being educated by a handful of kids who knew more and had better style than me from different neighborhoods. There was a click I became a member of. I started to carry a marker and was motion tagging everyday to and from school. By the end of 9th grade it came to a quick end when a friend and I were caught by the police and brought downtown. My mother was so disappointed in me that it made me quit writing. 

I started to ride my skateboard to school and met a few kids with boards. I started to learn tricks. Around this time is when I met Charlie (Keon). We met at the Flatbush Frolicks Festival on skateboards. We became fast friends and soon found we both had interest in graffiti as well (though I had quit). While hanging out Charlie and I would often do crazy pieces in chalk on my street. A small pack of guys would meet up after school or on weekends usually in front of our house and would practice tricks and try to show off to passerbys. I was constantly looking for interesting places to ride in the neighborhood. I found two buildings with drained fountains (the Big and Little Bowls). I found a maze of huge smooth brick inclined walls on the campus of Brooklyn College (the Flower Pots). 

 

 

Joust's quiver.

 

One evening my Dad, my brother and I went to the Baskin and Robbins on Flatbush Ave. The guy working there had a longboard with a WAR tag on it, and he had long hair. He told us about Manhattan skaters that met by the Alice in Wonderland statue near the Central Park boat pond on Saturday mornings. We went the next weekend and maybe a few more times. Skaters started showing up near the statue doing tricks. A kid named Andy Kessler (with a KESS tag on his board) determined the events of the day whether it be ride the "Highway Hill", skate uptown to Scandinavian Ski Shop or ride downtown to Paragon Sporting Goods. The city skaters would be grabbing onto bus and truck bumpers flying to the destination while the rest of us huffed and puffed... blocks behind. We did bring skaters from N Y.C. to our spots like Jaime Affoumado (RUST). I remember on the little bowl, there were some carving lines and also we would go up, hit the coping and do a kick turn. Jaime hit that coping so hard, he came down with a huge chunk of it, wedged under his board. At a Brooklyn Heights street fair I won a slalom contest by pumping my way through the cones and took home a case of soda. 

Keon and Joust up on the Prospect Expressway w/ Bishop Ford H.S. in the background

One guy I met who was both a real skater and a graffiti writer who got up was SIE1. We met on the Staten Island ferry heading out to New York's first skateboard park. There was a bus from the ferry that went right there. It was indoors in a warehouse, made entirely of plywood. I heard "We Will Rock You" for the first time in that place. After that, there were some ramps and half pipes, but eventually I returned to my street skating. Keon and I would just skate our old streets like veterans holding nose wheelies for entire blocks and hitting our old skate spots. 

 

As my teen years were running out I had come out of my graffiti retirement... Charlie and I had thrown a couple of pieces around the neighborhood, and we had also done a bunch of nice tag spots in Greenwich Village. I rode the train by myself down to the Sheepshead Bay station in the middle of the night with a shopping bag full of silver and red cans. I walked off the platform and caught throws on every sleeping train car. I kept up for over 2 years, always tagging everywhere I went, and piecing trains, highways and walls every weekend. I wasn't an all city king, but I now could quit and be satisfied. 

 

 

Trike posted this photo and story - do you remember that night?

I love this picture. I don't remember this roll-up gate, but we did so many in so many neighborhoods. I remember walking, bombing and laughing. Trike and I hit different train lines, and when we partnered up, there was a buzz. The streets were our coup de grâce. 

Do you still keep up with skating and graffiti?

In graffiti, I will take note if someone has a nice tag or throw. In skating, I'm very excited about some of the new wheel technology. The bearings, the urethane, the cores in the wheels. I've become way more of a crafter of boards. I still hit the skatepark, but mostly, I ride trails and streets. 

I would say what drew me to both skateboarding and writing were that they were purely invented by kids and required skills and creativity. They also gave you a certain credibility on the street. They were not part of main stream society. Now 40+ years later, I still love skating and doing graffiti pieces on paper. It's in my blood. 

Keso ICS GSB TVT MP

 

Today, Wriders travels to the New England section of the States to bring you our first chat with a Massachusetts-area skater & writer: Keso. From riding for his favorite skate company, to completing several hundred full-color panel pieces in under a year, Keso is unquestionably accomplished on the board and with the paint. And despite sustaining a serious injury, Keso is determined to maintain his presence in both cultures. We have no doubt that he will.      

 

What did you get into first, skating or graffiti?

Skateboarding. I have an elephant memory (long term) and I remember the first time seeing both skating and graffiti - it was at the same time . There was an old, abandoned gas station in the town I’m from. Skaters would skate the pump island curb and the building had graffiti all over it. Apparently looking outside the car window at a red light had enough impact on me to change the course of my life because since that day, those two things have been my entire life. 

I started skating in '92/'93; I was very young when I started. I started painting graffiti around maybe '98. I had zero knowledge, so I was just doing toy things/toy letters. Before social media and internet being accessible, I had zero reference. I consider my real start to be 2003. That’s when I did my first piece on a freight. I still walk by it in yards here and there it’s super cool to come across that. It has dicks toyed over it. 

 

Keso's first piece on a freight.

Who were you psyched on in your early days of skating?

Boston scene, for sure. Robbie Gangemi, Mike Graham, Vanik Hacobian. A lot of New York skaters, Zoo York Mixtape had a big impact. Trilogy, obviously. Lavar, Creager, Gino, etc.

Who were you psyched on in your early days of graffiti?

I grew up in close proximity to Boston and Providence. As far as Boston, at the time Flush, Aroe77, Rjay, among others, had the city smashed. They were all skaters, as well, so I was always looking up to them. Providence back then had a small but really good scene with writers like Lead, Seaz, Hence, User, Juner etc., crushing shit. Both cities had more writers than I mentioned getting after it but those stood out and had big impacts on me. 

What would you say are the differences between Boston/MA graffiti verses NYC graffiti?

Up until maybe 15 years ago, there were regional style differences. Boston is just a lot smaller, and they take it seriously. It’s a felony and they will charge you. A few writers have gotten caught in other states and they send them right to Boston. Some writers have done up to a few years for graffiti. 

 

How did you get your tag?

I wrote Seak as a toy. Caught a juvenile case that I beat, but I didn’t want to write the same name, so I wrote it backwards and dropped the A. Originally I wrote Kes, then just added the 'O' as a lot of writers will do.

 

How did you get on Western Edition?

Since they started, Western has always been my favorite company. Loved Ian’s artwork, the whole jazz vibe etc. Many years later I ended up in SF staying with Jabari (Pendleton), who introduced me to everyone at FTC. I became friends with all those guys and I guess maybe Ian asked me (to ride for WE). It was natural and although it doesn’t seem like a big deal as an adult, when I think of it, having a board on my all time favorite company is pretty awesome. I’m grateful, and thankful that Ian, Ando, and Kent allowed me that opportunity. 

 

 

Keso with a 5-0

What happened to your eye?

It’s a legal matter so I don’t want to say much, but I had an over-pressurized can of Rusto that was jammed. Shaking it did nothing. So I was tapping it against a railroad tie and the bottom blew out, which created a rocket that went into my eye. Basically obliterated my eye. They did emergency surgery but it was a wrap. The cone of the can was flattened by skull. It’s the same old story: Rustoleum quality has drastically gotten worse; they cut corners to make more profit. That all-American Greed. It was the worst couple months up until surgery - really can’t explain but excruciating. Mentally gnarly because as accepting of things I can’t change as I am, it’s gnarly looking into the mirror and there’s a hole in your face. I have a fake eye now. I had a great surgeon. I adapt. Took a bit with painting, being a depth perception issue, but I figured it out. Ended up being my most productive year painting - I was just on a marathon of mayhem. I painted just shy of 500 full-color panels in a year while losing an eye. I don’t go down easy. Skating is next to get back on. This year I want to focus more on that. I miss it a lot.  

Photo by Bobshirt

What is it about these two cultures that they attract a lot of the same people?

It’s different now, but years back they both  seemed to attract the type of people that were kind of anti-norms, or outcasts in a way. Just maybe people that thought outside of the box and thought for themselves. Nowadays... It’s a lot different, everything’s watered down, woke, and pretty corny to be honest. 

 

In skating it's not cool to film at skateparks. In graffiti it's not cool to paint legal walls. So are legal walls the graff equivalent of skatepark footage/what are your thoughts on these two "rules"?

I would never have painted a legal wall up until recently, or walls in general (I do very little). My association with graffiti has to do with my love for trains. For the most part I have zero interest in most of what comes with graffiti other than freights and the act. The gossip, politics, or meeting writers, beef - don’t care for it. The majority of writers are cornballs with insecurity complexes. As I get older though, I can enjoy a wall, legal or not, and relax for once without looking over your shoulder. Plus, I still paint illegally on a daily basis, so street cred can’t be questioned. If you only paint legal walls, do you. I think it’s corny, personally, but who cares what I thin? Do what makes you happy; it doesn’t bother me.

Any skaters or companies you're psyched on right now?

I pay almost zero attention to current skaters, but I still watch the old classics. I try to stay up on a few of the younger Boston skaters: Will Mazzarri, Ben Tenner, Sway, Brian Reid - all kill it. I try to keep up on Dick Rizzo and Zack May. I don’t pay attention to much currently as far as skating. Too much to keep up with.

 

What writers are you seeing up who you like?

I see a lot of AMFM stuff, all quality writers. Always enjoy seeing any NSF stuff: Dever, Enue, Arek, Pear, Stoe - that whole crew. My Queens boys Dego, Mesk, and the GTK crew crush it for sure. Blasting out end-2-ends. Pier & Grisle, all of the GFR guys put out exceptional graffiti. Gravy has been continuously crushing it for years under multiple different names. Lead & Vism. Anything AOK or RIS is a treat. Always like seeing Altr from Canada. For the most part I pay attention to the real hardcore freight guys that we’re doing it before it was popular. There’s tons of dog shit out there but it just makes the classic styles  stand out more. 

 

 

Any shout outs?

Shout out to anyone that’s ever showed me love, patience, forgiveness, gratitude, appreciativeness, and was genuine to me.  I’ve been very fortunate to have met some really awesome people in my life within my hobbies, and as well as outside them. I’m very grateful for that. Shout out Pope, Ian Johnson, Ando, and all the FTC guys. And my crews ICS, GSB, TVT, MP. Peace.

OJAE FYC

 

To set off 2024, we bring you OJAE FYC. From painting in the early days of the Freedom Tunnel, to skating at opening-day of NYC's first skatepark (Mullaly), OJAE's history in both graffiti and skating runs deep. And, if you ever wondered if his tag was skate related (I sure did), read on to find out.   

What did you get into first, skateboarding or graffiti?

I got into graffiti first, but skateboarding kind of at the same time. About 1986 I was returning home to the Upper West Side from living in a bunch of different foster homes on Long Island, and the first thing that I saw was graffiti. And it really piqued my interest. Then I somehow wound up with a skateboard. First I was into BMX because everybody in the neighborhood had a bike. That's how we got around as kids. And we made little ramps and stuff. Originally I'm from the Amsterdam Projects, then I was living on 78th and West End. I went to P.S. 87 - if you're from the Upper West Side, you know what that school is. I had a skateboard and there was this young woman who took a liking to me and started to tell me about her boyfriend who was very much into skateboarding. Her boyfriend turned out to be Andy Kessler. They both understood that my life wasn't in a good place, so they kind of took an interest in me and took me with them to do things. It got to a point where I'd spend weekends in Andy's house. One day Andy and I went to Mullaly Skatepark. I was about 12 or 13, and it was like day one of the park opening. There was a contest going on that we went to check out. At the skatepark, I ran into this dude Greg from midtown Manhattan. Greg was with this quiet white kid, who ended up being Kaz. Instantaneously Kaz and I formed a bond. Since Andy was a lot older and mostly skating ramps, and Kaz was my age and lived relatively close to me, Kaz ended up being my "in" to the skate world. He'd come up and skate the Museum of Natural History with me, and this shallow flat bank on 96th & Columbus and Lincoln Center and all that. Then he would take me to all the Midtown spots: Fuji, Paine Webber, CBS, the Bubble Banks, and other spots. 

 

From writing to skating, OJAE stays up on walls. Marriott Hotel, 1991

 

And of course there was the Brooklyn Banks and the whole World Trade Center area and the Wall Street area. Back then, that area was dead as a door nail on the weekends; all you saw was skateboarders down there. It kind of paralleled the video game 720: you go to a skate spot in the game and it would just be kids skating around. That was the start of it all. As I got more immersed into this with Kaz, I kind of piqued his curiosity with the graffiti. We already formed a relationship with skating, so in a sense he became my graffiti partner. We skateboarded and wrote graffiti together. This was at such a golden moment in NYC skateboarding because at that moment from what I remember skateboarding didn't really exist anywhere. You were kind of an outcast if skating was your thing. It wasn't understood and there wasn't much of it. The irony of it is that it was already so big while it was underground. You know, there was OD's skateshop in Midtown, then SHUT emerged, then Benji's skateshop. At the same time Skate NYC and SOHO skates were both on their way out. You had pockets of kids from different neighborhoods with the same interest who knew about all the same spots. So like on a Friday or Saturday night when you'd go to the Fuji building, there was no more LES kids or UWS kids, it was just straight up one big motley crew of skaters. I don't think I've ever seen any other sport or activity where people are such individuals yet so welcoming and mentoring of one another. There was no "you suck, get out of here!" We might make fun of you, but it wasn't done maliciously. It eventually formed this ill skateboard community that was long in existence before Zoo York (the board company) came along and really blew things up and put skating on the map. I grew up a couple blocks away from Eli Gesner, who I skated with a lot. He was sponsored by Z, so he'd hook me up with boards. And you couldn't buy them in NYC, so for me that made it a little extra dope to have them. 

 

50th Street 1 train station. 1991

 

How did you get your tag?

There was a neighborhood guy who originally wrote Chooch 156. Crazy dude. I met him when I was like 9, and he was like 15 or 16. Later he changed his tag to Ment TDS. You know the documentary Dark Days? Well, there's two younger white dudes in it. One of them just comes home from jail, and there's a scene where he's washing in the water falling from above. That's Chooch 156/Ment TVS. So if you go back through that film, you'll see I've got tags in his room underground. And he's the one that opened the door for me, graffiti wise. Like Kaz pulled me further into skateboarding, Ment pulled me further into graffiti. A lot of the first dudes I met in graffiti were from 156 crew: Praise, Design, Chow, Omni. Jon had already gone to Paris. But there was also the CM crew from the neighborhood. I went to school with Kev CM, whose brother was NICEO. So that's who I really first linked with, you know NICEO, Devs, Kev, Bens, those are really the first people I started venturing out writing graffiti with. But Ment saw me with the skateboard and it had OJ wheels, so he gave me the name OJ. Originally it was just the O and the J. Briefly it was OJAY. Then a very old friend of mine, Dos AOK, would give me all these hand styles, and he started writing it with an E, and it stuck. 

 

OJAE tags in the documentary Dark Days

 

I was going to ask, but you just answered: did you ever ride OJ wheels?

My first board was given to me by Andy Kessler. It was a Sam Cunningham Blockhead with 179 Indys and OJ II team riders. And I loved those wheels. 

 

OJAE ollies the CBS ledge. 1991

 

What's unique about your throw up is that you do the second letter first. Like Smith does his M first, you do your J first. How did you come up with that?

Progression. If you look at a lot of my first throw ups, the J goes behind the O. Or it's squished in and the proportions aren't right. Over years of doing it, I finally realized that I should do the J first to make it stick out and look like a J as opposed to getting shoved behind the O and you're like, "what is that?" 

What's the story behind your crew FYC?

I got this dear friend that I met in high school, he writes Care HR, IBM, his crew is FY. He was much older than I was, and I thought FY was so dope. I wanted to be down, but I wasn't going to ask, "can I be down?" So I made FYC, kind of in my head like, "fuck your crew, I'm, making my own crew." At first, me and Kaz had BHC. Big Hooter Crew. Big Hoochie Coochie. But then I formed FYC and I stuck with it. Now I think the oldest FYC tag is from '91. FYC is not a traditional crew where you have a gang of people who are affiliated and they hang out. If someone pushes FYC, then I have formed a brotherly bond with them and consider them family. There are many people who push FYC who have never met each other, and they are all over the place: Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Florida, other countries. Ultimately, FYC is a representation of me: Forever Young and Crazy. 

 

OJAE and Kaz up in the Freedom Tunnel

 

Who did you look up to in skateboarding?

I'm pretty sure my first skate video was Public Domain. That first scene with Ray Barbee and them... I still have that song burnt in my head. When I was young, I recorded that song ten times in a row on a tape, and I would play and skate as fast as I could down Broadway, weaving around people, ollieing off and up curbs. So my first major impression was Ray Barbee. Also Mike Vallely and Ray Underhill. Then when H-Street's Hokus Pokus came out, that seemed to really blow the doors off of things. The Donger was insane; he was more my style of skating. I liked to skate big and fast, I wasn't the best at all the technical tricks. But I was good at gaps, steps, handrails, ollieing trash cans and shit like that. I used to like skating the steps at the Museum of Natural History and ollieing the chain to the drop, which was easier than the steps, but scarier. 

Who did you see up a lot when you first got into graffiti?

When I first started writing, I lived a couple blocks from the Freedom Tunnels, which no one knew about, yet everyone knew about. When you walk down from Riverside Drive and 72nd St., and keep walking down into the park to the boat basin, to the right of all that was an old on ramp or off ramp to the highway, and there was nothing keeping people from going back there. But only homeless people and graffiti writers went back there. You just turn a corner and you're in one of the most sacred places to write graffiti and not have to worry. So I spent all my free time there. As I hung out there, people would come and go to paint, so I had the opportunity to meet so many different people. The first people I saw up in my neighborhood was Omni 156, Tao, Hangman, Seal, obviously Niceo and Devs, all them CM dudes. So that's all my very first influence. Plus, the 156 guys, but they were sort of on their way out. Trains were finishing up and benching the trains and wanting to go and do pieces was kind of fading away. Graffiti was transferring to the streets. I got to meet Chama WKS and Part TDS down in the tracks. Which at the time when I met them, I had no idea who these guys were. I was like 11 or 12 years old and they let me hang out with them the whole day. I got real cool with Chama, who was inspirational in a way because he was like, "when I come back I want to see huge tags, top to bottom! Throw ups on all the gates!" It's crazy how it came full circle, because I thought I'd never seen either one of those guys again. But more than 20 years later I ran into Chama and Part on Instagram, after putting in all this work, and they remembered me. Same thing with Kel1st and Mare 139. Around the corner from me on 77th and Broadway is a place called the Belleclaire Hotel. It was a shady place full of prostitutes and drug dealers. It was a weekly or SRO. Before it was a weekly, some people lived in there. I met this kid that lived in there. We became real close, like brothers. It got to the point where I would stay in his house instead of mine. His mom knew a lot of "it" people. The neighbor down the hall from us was this guy named Adolfo, and I guess he was some famous artist. We used to go to his house to chill. It was crazy, in the midst of this shit hole hotel, he had this ill four-bedroom apartment. He had these three friends that would come over all the time, who ended up being Mare 139, Kel1st, and Kel's girlfriend at the time, Debi Mazar. Now I'm hanging with those three on a daily/weekly basis. Kel spoke to me a lot about graffiti. I wish I still had all the outlines he did for me. So those are all the begining influences. Then obviously JA and Reas and Ghost. Then in high school and the late '90s I started meeting more people. Up in Spanish Harlem like Dreads NIW, Cue, Kep, ARS dudes. They're all derivatives of SM, Dobe, those guys, Spawn GNR, Jover, Aver, Joves, all of them dudes. And then what does skateboarding do? It brings you to the village. I met Cash and CA in the Freedom Tunnels, they were a little younger than I was. But I already knew Rast and his brother, AOS. Before skateboarding, my thing was ice skating. I would go to Wollman Rink all the time. And I knew Rast and AOS from ice skating, from when we were mad young. Now I run back into them in this RFC circle. It's crazy how these things come full circle. Another example, as I got older, I started hanging out with all these private school kids because of the building that I lived in. There was a dude who wrote Phed, I met him between 96th street and 86th street on the 1 train, there's a famous station called Ghost Town. I met him there one night painting by myself, and we became friends. Now with this circle of private school kids, I run into him there. Like, "oh shit, what's up?" Same thing with RFC. I already know Harold and Casper from skating, now I know them through RFC. Another person that I met early, early on, who I used to skate with all the time, was this kid named Ryan Sikorski. He's the owner and founder of Fat Beats. He and his buddies used to come over from New Jersey all the time and sleep at my house. The first time they came to my house-because I lived on the 15th floor-the first thing they wanted to do was throw shit out the window. We threw a skateboard wheel out the window and it hit the windshield of a taxi cab, bounces off the windshield and hits some dude in the back of the thigh and he dropped from an ill charlie horse! 

 

OJAE and Kaz along the Hudson Valley line. Peep the reflection in the puddle.

 

What is it about these two subcultures that they attract a lot of the same people?

Although the worlds are so far apart, they're also parallel. Most people who write graffiti and/or skateboard come from a shitty household or bad circumstances. With those two outlets comes so much; it's a big bang for your buck. It's therapy, it's a supporting community, you're a rebel, you feel like a badass, and it's an uplifting feeling to be a part of because no one else is a part of it. It's the mischievousness about it. Rolling around with a gang of kids skateboarding we were definitely terrorizing shit - running into people and running into stores and snatching shit and running out. Same thing with graffiti: bringing everybody together and when everybody's together everyone wants to wil' out and be bad. It was acting out against whatever circumstances you have going on. As you get older, it can be a positive thing in your life. It doesn't have to be so wild and outlawish as it was when you were younger. Painting and making art is therapeutic, as is skateboarding. You kind of get the same feeling of accomplishment out of both. Progressing and getting better at both makes you feel good. Another thing with both skating and graffiti, as well as being participants, we're also fans. I'm a big fan of other people doing graffiti. 

 

 

In skating it's not cool to film at skateparks. In graffiti it's not cool to paint legal walls. So are legal walls the graff equivalent of skatepark footage?

I stopped skating in 2004 due to a car accident. I went to press the brake at the point of impact. But the impact shoved the motor and everything in, which ended up wrecking my ankle. With that car accident, there goes skateboarding for the rest of my life. But I can agree in the sense that if you're going to film some skating, film something that's going to stand out. Film something that you found in the street so there's more substance to the content. As for legal walls, there's nothing wrong with them. I say it all the time: if you like to put stickers up, if you like to draw artsy fartsy shit, you like to paint legal walls, you like to bomb streets and tear it up, or if you like to film at skateparks, whatever it is you do, be true to it and own it. Don't paint legal walls and then talk about how you're up everywhere and kill shit, acting like you're a graffiti vandal when you're not. If you can't be true to what you do, then why should I give you respect for what you do? And that point applies to everything in life. 

Last question: will you hit my book?

Of course!