Wriders: Ave SWK aka The Running Man

I recently ran into Ave SWK, aka the Running Man, and decided to go off menu here and do a strictly graffiti interview. (Although I learned he did dabble in skating a bit.) We talked about the trials and tribulations of being a writer from Long Island, how the Running Man came about, being mentioned in that Nas song, and much more. And for kicks, we made a Running Man x Wriders collaboration t-shirt, available here: https://wriders-nyc-shop.bigcartel.com/

Photo: @kempstarr

What year did you start writing?

On walls, 1980. But I started to get into it in 1978. Taking school trips into the city - Statue of Liberty, museum of Natural History - that's when you first start seeing graffiti, and you're like, "What's going on here?! I want to do that, too!" So, by 1980, I was tooling around with it like everyone else.

How did you get your tag?

You go through a bunch of tags. Everyone starts off as a toy. You try different letters and words you might like. But I was writing my name around. It was just easier. Eventually, I dropped the D from Dave, and you get Ave.

How did the Running Man come about?

That's sort of accidental. You know, people look at hip hop and graffiti as one thing. But that's not necessarily how it was back in the day. Throughout the '70s and early '80s, hip hop was new, so everyone was still listening to rock. You had the Black Sabbath (train) car, the Alice Cooper car, the Kiss car, lots of different rock band cars were coming through. I was doing the D.R.I. logo, which is actually the international symbol for slam dancing. Some people knew what it was, and other people didn't. I was with Dine, and he said, "forget about all that other shit you do; that Running Man shit, that's what hot." Trap was blowing up with the T, so I said, "OK I'll do a couple more of these." I love D.R.I. and the hardcore scene. A lot of people say I helped blow up the hardcore scene. Sometimes I believe I guess that's true, during that time. It was a recognizable symbol that crossed over all genres.

Me and Mesh were bombing for years and nobody cared. Once I started doing the Running Man, people started to care. They started saying, "what is that/who is that guy?" The people that knew it was a hardcore symbol got all gassed and excited, like "wow D.R.I.! I never thought of doing that!" I do it for the scene. The NY hardocre scene. That's all bands and everybody, anybody that wants to dance all around and act like a maniac.

Photo: @nateperaccini

And you do the sign around the Running Man.

Yeah, that's from the album "Thrash Zone". Which is a decent record. I like the first three records, after that they are more like a metal band. I still listen to them, but it's no different than listening to Metallica or Pantera or anything else.

Did you have any affiliation with the band?

No, just a fan until I finally met them in 1987. Even to this day, when they are in town, I go see them play, shake hands and say hello. His (Kurt Brecht) screensaver is the Running Man on the back of a truck. That's good enough for me. I can dig that. Thanks, Kurt!

What's your favorite D.R.I. song?

"I Don't Need Society".

How did SWK start?

That comes from David Muzio, my best friend, who started the crew in 1985. There you go: Street Wise Kids. He wrote Muze and a bunch of other things. At one point he was writing That Bad Davis, which is why I stopped writing Dave and started writing Ave because he was writing Davis. He also wrote whatever he saw. He'd bring whatever he saw out there (the city), and start doing it out here (Long Island). Sometimes Sane, sometimes Hush.

What was it like being a Long Island writer and trying to get recognized by city writers?

It took forever. We didn't know where everything was. Because, again, we were toy, and we're going into the city, but not going to the Grant layups and all that stuff. I'm 14 years old thinking, "that must be crazy! what's going on down there?!" So, I would do insides with these two kids I met in the early '80s, Beep and Stain. They were twins from Valley Stream. I met them from mutual friends. Once you start going out to the borderline of Nassua, you're in Cambria Heights, Rosedale, Elmont, Valley Stream, that's when I met IF: Dine, Trap, Edge, Devo, Enuf, Smurfy. Then you got the Nassua Artists: Ozone, Snow, Act, Dino (becomes Mesh later). We would just take the train into Jamaica or Manhattan, and start doing insides. So people saw me on the insides, but they could care less. The insides were a mess. It was the outsides that everyone was trying to dominate.

Thanks to Style Wars, they show you the layup right on the conduit! That's Pitkin and Pine! There they are walking over and lifting up the gate! Now everyone is going to Grant! Literally everyone. That stupid movie exposed everything. We weren't the only kids from Long Island trying to make it. Sho and Destiny's Children, those dudes from Freeport, were going Grant. They would show up at the mall talking about what they did. We were like, "What?! You guys go down there?!" They were like, "Yeah! Like at like 2 or 3 in the morning!" I was like, "What?!" You know, because I was too young to be driving all the way out there.

How did you get down with FTR?

Sume met one of those guys. He spent a lot of time at Lane and different places. He ran into someone from FTR and told them he knew the Running Man and Mesh. They were like, "Come to Forest Park!" We all pile into Sume's van and he takes us to Forest Park. There must have been 30 FTR guys there that night. It was a really good night. But you gotta understand that they were mad young then. I remember SN, Giz, Slash, and Jerms being there, and also guys that were down but didn't bomb like that.

How did SWK and IF link up?

College. Me and Mesh went to the same college, Sullivan County, and my roommate, Neil, knew Dine, and that's how we linked up. That was 1988. I ended up writing mostly with Dine. Trap, too, but mostly with Dine. IF wrote on the trains, then when the trains died, they did the neighborhood and they'd bomb from the Cross Island to the Belt Parkway. Then a bunch of them got jumped on the Clearview by TMR, and that's what started the beef between TMR and IF. But you know TMR might not have known who they were jumping, they were just patrolling the Clearview. They even got Mesh and this guy Set (not Set KRT) on the Clearview. It was always on the Clearview, which was TMR territory. And they made the paper three times, so I think they did a pretty good job.

How did the beef with GHS come about?

They were giving Sace a problem. Sace was down with us, so we backed him up and it escalated from there. That's it. That's how simple it was.

So there was no connection with IF having beef with TMR, and GHS being down with TMR and SWK being down with IF?

Nope, no connection. Just a strange coincidence. It's funny you say that.

Didn't you meet a girl while bombing one night and end up dating her for a while?

Yes, I did! Ok, so I'm with Guido Yepez and we just finished doing a live event. It was a great show, we were on such a high, I had paint in the truck, so we started bombing down Canal Street. I tell Guido to keep an eye out because Canal Street back then was a little crooked. You didn't know who could get ya: Flaming Dragons or 333, there were a lot of people patrolling back then. Instead of some crazy hoodlums, a little Italian girl comes up to us! Saying, "I like your figurine; I've seen it all around. I can't believe I'm seeing you do it!" I'm like, "Guido, you're supposed to be watching out!" We all laugh and she ended up hanging out with us for another half hour watching out for us! I exchanged numbers with her and ended dating her for like a year. Her name was Francesca, she was here from Italy on a visa doing fashion. I really, really liked her. She went back to Italy, and then came back some years later and called me. I go to meet up with her and she's covered in tattoos and doing heroin. I'm like, "What's going on in Italy?!" She and her friends wanted to go to the Hamptons. That's three hours away! So I took them to Freeport and left them there.

Ave, in action.

So you're on a lot of the backs of box trucks.

Been hitting trucks a long time. My favorite two yards are right over there by JFK. Back in the day, there were no fences around the yard. I'd go with Luke and Prime from the SPC crew and destroy. 10 to 20 trucks a night! Per yard! Sometimes doing three yards a night! People would wake up the next day in complete fear! "What just happened?! Every truck rolling by has the Running Man on it!" Those were the good ol' days. And I consciously made the decision to control the back door. There were a couple times when we went to the yard and we're painting and I got to a truck and Luke had already done the back. I'd go right over him! He'd be like, "What are you doing?!" I told you, it is my spot. I'm gonna take your paint next time! Believe me, the back door was my spot. It's perfect: the man fits right on the door, then I can put in the sign.

How did you find out you were mentioned in the Nas song, "Writers"?

At 1:30 or 2 in the morning, my phone rings and it's Jerk from the AU crew all excited, "Nas is talking about you on the record! He mentions you on the record!" I said, "alright, I'll listen to it in the morning." And I went back to sleep and heard it in the morning. It's cool, I'm into it. But you know what's crazy is that Nas reaches a lot of people: not just hip hop people, but rock guys and metal guys. A lot of different people listen to Nas. So, I heard from a lot of different people. That was interesting and pretty cool.

Luke SPC texted me about it saying "it's like a lifetime achievement award."

Nice! I might use that myself.

So you dabbled in skateboarding a little bit?

Of course, everybody was into skating in the 70s, especially the Powell Peralta days. When those boards came out, everybody got one. I was doing the basics for those days, tic tacs and trying to ollie and do handstands. This was about '78 to '82. Then you switch over to BMX like everyone else. Then from BMX, the mountain bikes come in. Now I'm a rode bike guy.

Photo: @kempstarr

Who would you say are the top writers to come out of Long Island?

I guess I would be the biggest bomber. When it comes to pieces, that would be the old generation, I would say DC3. Newer generation for piecing, I'd say Such. Is there anyone else after that? Nobody I can think of.

Who are your top five writers of all time?

When I was a kid I liked Bus 129 which turned out to be Dondi. Dezzy Dez is probably my all-time favorite. Then Skeme. Then I'd say Poem and Dine from the more recent generation. I don't really go past 1990. If you didn't write on trains, I don't care about it. I'm bored with it. It took you eight hours to do that? What did you bring a lunch? In the yard or layup you might have an hour or two to get out what you can.

Last question: will you hit my book?

Of course.